Courageous Climate Conversations with Cass Hebron
In this episode, Sarah Harrison sits down with climate communications consultant and climate activist Cass Hebron, founder and editor of The Green Fix newsletter.
Listen in to learn more about her work as a communications consultant for environmental organizations, and why it’s so important to talk about our climate crisis with the people in your life — and how to go about doing that in a way that is effective, not awkward.
Climate Designers will be presenting a workshop facilitated by Cass Hebron on Monday, August 15, called How to Talk About the Climate Crisis Without Alienating Your Coworkers, as part of our Global Party Series. This episode will give you a little sneak peek before the main event next week.
Links Mentioned in this Episode:
Get tickets and RSVP for the event How to Talk About the Climate Crisis Without Alienating Your Coworkers
Learn more about the Global Party Series
Learn more about Cass at casshebron.com
Subscribe to The Green Fix Newsletter
Follow Cass on Twitter @Casstaways
Follow Cass on Instagram @Coffee_and_casstaways
Transcript
[00:00:00] Sarah: Hey climate designers, Sarah here, and today I'm excited to be joined by an expert in climate communications. We're going to spend this episode discussing her work as a communications consultant for environmental organizations and as a climate activist, and why it's so important to talk about our climate crisis with the people in your life.
Today's episode is actually a sneak peek into an upcoming workshop we're hosting on August 15th for our supporting members. Find all of the info at climatedesigners.org/GPS.
And now please allow me to introduce you to Cass Hebron, who will be facilitating this workshop with us in a few weeks, teaching us how to talk about the climate crisis without alienating your coworkers.
Cass, thank you so much for taking the time to hang out with me today.
[00:01:21] Cass: Thank you for inviting me to the podcast. It's a pleasure to be here.
[00:01:24] Sarah: Absolutely. So let's dive into some of the questions that I have for you today. First of all, can you give us a little insight into your journey, how you got to this point where you are now where you're this leader facilitating workshops on climate conversations and consulting with NGOs on climate communications?
[00:01:45] Cass: Sure. So I. Didn't plan for this to be my career. I studied linguistics and I was intending to pursue a career in journalism or in marketing. But while I was a student, I got really interested in secondhand shopping and I. Started doing that mainly to save money, but then I started reading about the other benefits of secondhand shopping and reducing waste in buying clothes that were not created in unethical conditions or rather not contributing to the production of those clothes.
And I started asking myself, What other things can I do that are sustainable, that will also help me save money. That was my main concern. And I realized there was a lack of information about what students could do to be sustainable on a budget. So I started a student magazine online it's called Wild. It's still being run today. If there's any UK students listening.
And I actually ended up spending almost as much time on this as my actual degree, I started interviewing local green groups, student societies, containers all about the work they were doing. And I learned so much about sustainability in a short amount of time.
And when it came to graduation, I finally connected the dots and I realized that I could use my experience in communication. And use it to pursue a career in something I was passionate about in, in creating a fairer, a more sustainable world. So I started applying for jobs in NGOs, and I only applied for one outside the UK on a whim which was a traineeship for the fair train advocacy office in Brussels.
And I didn't really think about the implications of that application. I just as all students do in a graduation, panic applied in haze and I got. And I moved to Brussels, not really knowing anything about Belgium. Or the EU or legislation or political advocacy. And it was like being thrown in the deep end.
My perspective totally shifted from sustainability at an individual level to advocating for a political change to really entrench a sustainable way of living for everyone. And from that, I then kept working at different NGOs. I, I. Then moved on to Oxfam, then friends of the earth always in the media teams.
And then last year became a freelancer doing the same work that I was doing before. But now for a range of clients I create communications for different environmental NGOs. And so it's been a bit of a winding path, but that's how I ended up where I am today.
[00:04:16] Sarah: Very cool. Thank you for that. I always love the very interesting stories about how people get into sustainable living and climate activism. Thrift shopping, secondhand shopping is a new one. I don't think I've heard that before. That's so awesome.
[00:04:31] Cass: Yeah. It only takes one thing. And then it's like the ball gets rolling and you realize as a whole world out there of changes that are really actually make your life better as well.
[00:04:40] Sarah: Yeah. There's many paths into it and yes, you're right. It absolutely makes your life better when you get into it too.
You're also currently editor of a climate action newsletter, The Green Fix, which is really informative and a relatable resource. And you've been sending this out for every, or every two weeks for two years now.
Yeah. Tell us more about this. How does this newsletter fit into the work you're doing?
[00:05:05] Cass: Sure. I started the green fix in a bit of a unplanned way. Clearly a theme with me. I was working for Oxfam EU during the first lockdown. And I was working a lot on the EU Green Deal and Climate justice.
And a lot of my friends and family were telling me that they were so worried about this news about the Amazon rainforest fires and all the climate disasters. But that they felt powerless. And I also realized that they had no idea what was happening at a political level in the EU or in the UK. Not because they weren't trying to follow it, but because it's not clear how to get like, easy to understand information about what is, what our governments are doing to create a sustainable fair world. And on top of that, how citizens can actually have a say in the laws that are going to affect our futures now and for future generations. So I was very frustrated about this and like, why am I working on political issues that are clearly only accessible to a bubble of people that are already experts. So I decided to launch this newsletter to unpack some climate justice jargon and introduce different topics in sustainable living in an understandable way, in a way that your gran could understand.
So I, it was very informal at first. I was just interviewing people that I'd worked with before, and then I was getting really positive feedback and then more people kept subscribing and then I got really into it and I realized there was so many more topics to cover. It became my passion project and.
Next thing I know I've been doing it for two years. I have a team of six volunteers who are incredible and I wouldn't be able to run it without them. And we have social media channels. We're doing online events is just amazing to see how many climate initiatives there are out there to cover and how many opportunities there are.
I'd never lack content to put in there. Actually the challenge is how do I fit it all in? So this is what motivates me to keep going. And it is part of my work. Cause I also create a lot of professional connections through this. It's like a good showcase that I know what I'm talking about. And I learn about I it helps me stay informed as well because I'm actively reading the news, evaluating the news seeing what opportunities are out there.
So it, it works really well for me.
[00:07:33] Sarah: Awesome. Yeah. And it's really interesting and entertaining to read as well. Would you say that it's equal parts, you mentioned, translating UK and EU policy, at least, for the mainstream person, and also individual action, like helping people realize what they can do. It's both.
[00:07:50] Cass: Yeah. It there's four sections. There's the introduction a Roundup of climate news from Europe and around the world with explainers, then a focus section, which is normally a Q and A, and then some opportunities which are divided into opportunities to learn and then opportunities in the climate movement that are accessible to anyone.
So it's really geared towards things that anyone can do, but a step beyond reusable bags and reusable cups and into holding governments accountable.
[00:08:18] Sarah: Very cool. And in a recent issue of The Green Fix, you wrote, " Look what we can do when we stop imagining that it's us trying to change the world and realize we are the world we're trying to change."
I just love that. That is everything.
[00:08:35] Cass: Thank you. I appreciate that. It's good to know people are reading it.
[00:08:40] Sarah: Absolutely.
In previous episodes of this podcast, Marc and I have talked about how it's so important to talk about our climate crisis with people in your life, people close to you. And I'd love to hear your take on this.
What to you is so impactful about having climate conversations.
[00:09:01] Cass: So having climate conversations and that's quite a broad term in itself. Is so important for actual meaningful sustainable transitions because we see from behavioral studies from surveys that we do that, the information that we get from our friends and family is far more influential than any mainstream media than any social media account, any scientific study, because it's personal. And because we have that direct connection with the person that's telling it to us.
At heart, we are quite local creatures. And when someone that we already trust and have a connection with says, this is an issue I'm concerned about, we care and we listen far more than any headline.
Also because now we are so used to going online and seeing that the world is ending every day by the look of it that every year seems to be the hottest year. Every month is the hottest month that the rainforest is always on fire. How can you respond to that?
How can you take that in? We don't we can't, we don't have any follow up from that, but when it's more personal conversation, when I come to friends and I say, I'm worried about the impact of global heating on my future. And I don't know what to do and I'm, and I feel really worried. I can have such a meaningful conversation and I will feel more connected with the other person by the end of it than by simply taking in a lot of information about climate disasters and thinking, oh great. Now what am I supposed to.
So it's just such a powerful tool, an underused tool in promoting behavior change and advocacy and people don't realize the power that they have.
[00:10:49] Sarah: Absolutely can be very influential. And one thing that I like to think about is what happens when we don't talk about the climate crisis,
[00:11:00] Cass: yeah. Yeah.
[00:11:01] Sarah: We all just internalize all of this that we're hearing and seeing on the news, but then it's too hard to talk about and we just stay with the status quo.
[00:11:09] Cass: Exactly. If we don't talk about it, it maintains its status, the elephant in the room of the thing that is so terrible and scary that we can't even label it or speak of it because if we speak about it, then we're acknowledging that it's real when we don't wanna believe that it's real.
And then we paralyze any attempt to action or adaptation.
So talking about it. It's step one. It is opening the gate to climate action.
[00:11:37] Sarah: Yep. And a lot of us and a lot of the people listening to this podcast consider themselves climate activists, or at least climate concerned. And we are always asking, what can I do? What can I do to make a bigger impact? Knowing that talking about the climate crisis is one of the most impactful things we can do about it, why is it that so many of us have trouble talking about climate stuff? What is it that's keeping our mouth shut?
[00:12:04] Cass: I think for whatever reason, there's various reasons that vary quite culturally and from family to family that the climate crisis has been put in the taboo section, alongside politics and religion and other things that are uncomfortable to bring up around the dinner table. Perhaps because it's associated with so much negativity and fear and often blame, particularly from younger climate activists that are asking themselves.
How have I grown up to discover that my future might look very drastically different from the one that was promised to me and the ones that the generations before me had, and that can translate into, why did older generations build this world for us? And none of this is particularly comfortable to discuss with your grandparents at a catch up it's a very confronting conversation and it addresses things that we don't wanna, we don't wanna think about.
I also think that there's quite a connection between the climate crisis and thinking that the conversation has to be negative and revolving around the anxiety and the fear rather than revolving around the solutions and all the benefits that come with taking action or doing anything to promote sustainability in your local area or at a national level that we think it has to be a conversation about, the things that went wrong and the terrible things that might happen rather than the good things that could happen if we change course.
[00:13:30] Sarah: I love that you said that. I think you're absolutely right. I think it's because the climate crisis has been made so political that for one thing, it falls into that category of don't talk about politics and for another it's really been conditioned for us to see nothing but the negative about the climate crisis, what people are doing wrong and why the young are so angry. And it's just so many negative emotions. So I'm really glad that you brought up the idea of educating yourself on solutions and what's being done, what could be done and what could be better.
And talking about the positive. We know that works. That activates people, that excites people.
[00:14:09] Cass: We already know the negatives. We hear the negatives all the time, but we hear far less about all the things that you can do and you don't wanna paralyze people. You wanna inspire people.
[00:14:19] Sarah: Exactly. We wanna inspire action, influence behavior change, and get more people to talk about it.
[00:14:26] Cass: Exactly. Don't wanna come across as a doom and gloom preacher, we already have plenty of that. And if people were not taking action, if your friends, family, coworkers, whoever it is that you want to talk to, if they weren't taking action before, it will not help to go in and quote more statistics or to get angry, because that will just put people on the defensive. It will just paralyze people even further and they think the situation is so bad, then what do you expect me to do about it?
If you say, Hey, I started volunteering at a cleanup in my local park and I love it because I get outside. I meet new people and the park is so much nicer to spend time in now, or I am writing weekly emails to my local policy makers to ask for more affordable, renewable energy options in my region, because that way I will be able to actually afford heating in the winter.
This is things that anyone can do, and they bring so many more benefits than than just yeah, ranting about how bad it could be, which can all always be our first instinct. Of course we wanna rant because we're scared, but that's not what connects with people.
[00:15:33] Sarah: Awesome. I love that. You make it so relatable. You make it so personal when you're talking about how your heating bill can be more affordable or how much you love doing the cleanup in the park. It's simple.
[00:15:44] Cass: Yeah. We don't connect to global issues either. Like things that might happen to 5 million people in 10 years time, that's nothing, we can't picture that in our heads. But we can picture what will happen if the local park gets replaced by more housing, or if we can't afford heating, because the situation that we're in, at least in Europe right now, that's something that feels real.
[00:16:11] Sarah: Beautiful. Yeah, this is going to be the topic of our event. I believe it's next week is that right.
I was gonna say in a couple of weeks, but it's coming right up, is how to talk about the climate crisis with coworkers. Because a lot of people that we're in community with are designers and thinking about how they can make an impact at work.
So what's one actionable piece of advice that you can give listeners today to start a climate conversation or help a climate conversation, be less awkward.
[00:16:42] Cass: One piece of advice. Oh, that's so that's such a good question. I would say my one piece of advice is share something that you're doing to be more sustainable, but come from it, come at the conversation from an emotional angle.
So what do I mean by that? I mean, Don't say. " I'm going vegan or I'm going vegetarian because industrial agriculture is pumping out emissions at this rate…" I can say from experience that does not tend to end with convincing anyone to change.
But I might say, "Oh, I've gone vegan because I actually really like feeling like my food and my dietary choices are helping the planet rather than harming it. I like this chance to try all these different new foods. And also I do feel quite worried about the climate right now and all the news that I'm seeing…" because that is not telling anyone else, how to live. That's just sharing openly how you feel and something that you can do about it.
So that would be my tip.
Share one thing that you are doing that is already making your life better, that happens to be sustainable.
[00:17:48] Sarah: Nice!
[00:17:48] Cass: And see what happens.
[00:17:49] Sarah: Perfect. Thank you.
So for more tips from Cass and to get a chance to practice with like-minded people come to our workshop.
I'll give you all of the info right now, and it'll also be on our website at climatedesigners.org/GPS.
The event is called "how to talk about the climate crisis without alienating your coworkers."
It will be Monday, August 15th at 9:00 AM pacific, noon Eastern, 5:00 PM UK time. So a wide range of times that hopefully can make it.
We are going to help you develop confidence starting climate conversations. You'll learn the dos and don'ts of climate conversations. And you'll get a chance, like I said, to practice your conversation skills with workshop attendees.
Tickets are $15 for the general public and it's free for climate designers supporting members, which you can sign up to become a supporting member for around $12 a month and you get a one month free trial.
So once again, Is all at climatedesigners.org/GPS and click on the event "How to talk about the climate crisis without alienating your coworkers" to RSVP and get tickets and all of that good stuff.
Cass, thank you so much for having this conversation with me today. How can people follow up with you? Get in touch with you, follow you on social media and see what you're up to?
[00:19:17] Cass: Sure. So thank you for having me here today. It's been a real pleasure talking. If anyone is interested in following up the newsletter would be the place for climate opportunities. That's the green fix dot sub stack.com. And you can also follow me on Twitter, which is at casstaways with two S's.
That's my pun there. Or on Instagram at coffee underscore and underscore casstaways again with two S's and I hope to see some listeners at the workshop.
[00:19:50] Sarah: Excellent. Thank you again.
[00:19:52] Cass: Thank you.